Posted: 07/06/17 | July 6th, 2017
Everybody wants to have more exciting, interesting, and adventurous travels. It’s those epic trips that make for the best stories, the best photos, and the best memories.
Wanting to find out how we can have more adventurous travels (and lives!) I sat down with scientist, influencer, adventurer, and author Jon Levy to discuss the possibility of creating more consistent adventures.
Tell everyone about yourself!
My name is Jon Levy. I am a behavioral scientist, and I specialize in understanding influence and the science of adventure. I’ve spent the last decade traveling around the world trying to understand what causes people to live fun, exciting, and fulfilling lives. What I discovered was that every adventure follows a four-stage process that can make any person’s life more adventurous. I chronicled these discoveries in a book called The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure.
What is “the 2 AM principle?” I hear nothing good happens after that time!
Nothing good happens after 2am — except the most epic experiences of your life!
The book is about my research and discoveries in the science of adventure. It includes some outrageous stories of my life: I get crushed by a bull in Pamplona. I beat Kiefer Sutherland in drunken Jenga, then he forgets that he invited me to his family Thanksgiving, which we both realize when I show up. Within 10 seconds of meeting, I convince the woman at the duty-free checkout counter in Stockholm airport to quit her job and travel with me.
When people go on adventures, they will often try to push the experience long past the point of enjoyment. As a result, they remember the experience less fondly and are less likely to participate in the future. The 2am principle is the idea that there is a clear time when you should call it a night and go to bed — or you should push onward and make the experience more “EPIC.” What do I mean by EPIC?
I discovered that every adventure follows a four-stage process: Establish, Push Boundaries, Increase, and Continue (EPIC). These stages have specific characteristics that when applied make life exciting. The best part is: anyone can use the process.
In the book, I explore the science that makes this possible, so that any person can lead a more adventurous life. All they have to do is follow the process.
For example, there’s a simple idea called the peak-end rule. Psychologists Daniel Kahneman and Barbara Fredrickson found that human beings judge an experience based on the peaks and the end, not its entirety.
Imagine that you are having one of the best dates of your life. However, at the end, your date turns to you and says the most awful thing that you ever heard. It might be something that completely contradicts your values or that you find offensive. If someone were to ask you later how your date went, you would say it was terrible. In reality, it was three hours of good and three seconds of terrible.
This means that we need to understand when to end an adventure, and when to keep going. Often you are better off ending early and on a good note. Otherwise you could end up at a pizza place at 4 in the morning trying to convince your friends to keep going. The fact is if you don’t end positively, you will remember the experience less fondly, and be less likely to participate in opportunities in the future.
What made you decide to write this book?
I think what inspired me most were movies like Ferris Bueller’s Day Off; I wanted to understand how those characters did what they did. I wanted to understand what it would take for me to live a life that is worthy of Hollywood.
I was a geek growing up — and back then, there was no such thing as a cool geek. I thought that my love of science could help me figure out how to fit in. This book is really for the ones that didn’t quite fit in, who didn’t know how to act at a party or maybe never even got invited.
Is there really a science to adventure?
Undoubtedly, yes, there’s a science to just about anything that you want to do. As a species, humans have certain universal characteristics. What excites me might be different from what excites you, but we both experience excitement. That means that we are both capable of having adventurous lives. As I define it, an adventure has these characteristics:
- It’s exciting and remarkable – The experience is worth talking about. As a species, we’ve spent millennia passing on our knowledge orally. If it’s not worth talking about, it’s not culturally relevant.
- It possesses adversity and/or risk (preferably perceived risk) – You have to overcome something. Although our brains process imminent peril (a snake biting you) differently than a perceived risk (looking over the edge of a mountain), the physical response is incredibly similar. You can participate in activities that are frightening but incredibly safe. It is the difference between climbing Everest and skydiving. Almost no one ever gets hurt skydiving.
- It brings about growth – You are changed by the experience. You will notice that in every great hero or heroine’s journey, the participant is changed from the experience. They have a greater capacity and skill set in the end compared to when they started. The true gift of an adventure is not just the stories you will tell, but the person you become in the process.
If you can do something that fulfills these characteristics, then you’ve had an adventure. For some people that might be visiting a new city; for others, it might be talking to strangers.
What is it about travelers who have adventures that is different than everyone else? Is there one shared trait?
I think the difference is our desire for novelty and our willingness to be uncomfortable. Our brains have a novelty center called the substantia nigra/ventral tegmental area (SN/VTA). Researchers Nico Bunzeck and Emrah Düzel examined this part of the brain with an MRI and found that it reacts differently when exposed to new stimuli. For instance, novelty motivates the brain to explore.
Ultimately, the size of your life is proportional to how uncomfortable you are willing to be. It is uncomfortable to leave home and our friends, to be in a new culture where you don’t know the customs, but it is exciting. Some of us have that desire for novelty and others don’t. That’s fine — we don’t all need to be the same. But if you are willing to be daring, push your comfort zone, and put yourself out there, life is a grand adventure.
How did you get into travel?
The reason I started creating an ambitious travel project is about as clichéd as one can imagine. It was because of a girl. I don’t know if you have ever gone through a really bad breakup, but I did. To reward myself for getting through it in a healthy way, I decided that every month for a year, I would travel to the biggest events, no matter where they were held.
I didn’t know how I was going to pay for it. I was working a full-time job, and I didn’t even know what some of these events were until right before. After telling all of my friends, family, and even the internet that I am going to do this, I had to make it work.
Within a few weeks, I was on my way to Art Basel in Miami. Soon after, I was attending the running of the bulls, Burning Man, the Cannes Film Festival in France, etc.
Another year, I went to all seven continents. No matter what, I always set a goal that I didn’t know how I would complete.
You say you used to be a nerd. What changed for you? Was there a pivotal moment?
The first experience I had of fitting in was when I was about 15 and went to a winter camp. I started telling a story to a group I didn’t know and was surprised that they were enjoying it and laughing. I realized that I could be funny and social — I had never felt that way before.
Sometimes all you need is a little bit of positive feedback, and the next thing you know, you have a brand new confidence and your life completely changes direction.
In the book, I talk about this interesting quirk called “the winner effect.” After a win, our bodies get a jolt of testosterone (Both genders have testosterone, but women are at less risk of being effected by the winner effect, as their levels of testosterone are lower to begin with) that prepares us for the next battle or challenge. (In the wild, animals experience the same.)
In boxing, fighters will take on smaller fights that they know they will be able to win to prepare for a more difficult fight. The key is to pile up smaller wins to increase your confidence for a bigger challenge.
What is the #1 thing you want people to do after they read your book?
I want everyone to take on a one-year travel challenge. I do one almost every year. Some examples of challenges I’ve done are visiting 20 countries, all seven continents, and the biggest events in the world. For readers, their goal should be whatever excites them. It should be completely absurd, and it needs to get them out of their comfort zone.
I want them to push their emotional, social, or physical boundaries. The experience should make them redefine who they thought they were.
Jon Levy is a behavioral scientist, consultant, author, and expert on the topics of influence and adventure. His book, The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure, examines the process of how adventures happen – and how we can recreate them to grow and challenge ourselves. You can find him on Twitter and at his website.
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Ryan Biddulph
Hi Matt and Jon,
SUCH a big fan of experiencing the growth you mention, by diving out of my comfort zone. I intend to follow my fun and to dive into my fears daily. From my blog to my travel life, if I am not diving into life and leaving my comfort zone I feel like I am dying. So I commit to doing freeing and fun and sometimes highly uncomfortable things – talking to strangers, duck walk voguing in front of a steel plant, ya know, average stuff 😉 – and am embodying that 2 AM principle pretty darn well.
Thanks for sharing 🙂
Ryan
Jane M
I’ve always wondered about the science and genetics of what makes a traveller. My mother, grandmother, great grandparents, and great great grandparents all took epic adventure in their lifetimes. It’s no surprise that after two years living in any one place I get terminally bored and have to move on. I finally solved that problem by just travelling permanently – now I feel like I belong in my own skin.
I do think that Jon’s suggestion for people to take on a yearly travel challenge is a good one but they should keep in mind that it doesn’t have to be as epic as Jon’s first challenge. Making small changes in daily routine – like biking to work instead of driving, getting out of the city for hike on the weekend, going to a local meetup etc – can be a great first step in stoking your taste for adventure!
Marilynn
Interesting to think on genetics. I have a daughter, widowed, age early forties with two boys 9 & 12. We always went places when she was a kid. Her money is limited, school teacher, widowed. So she goes out and buys a used SUV a tent trailer and a national parks pass,every summer now for three years she and her boys go camping. Her photos are amazing, from sliding down rocks to biking and hiking. History is there as she goes through the desert SW. She sent an interesting post that most Americans only travel to about 12 states, she is working on it, I came up with 40. Than I asked how many countries, still working on that one at only 18, Hoping it will be 26 by the end of October. And am living over half my year in Baja Sur, Mexico. My son stays home, Funny, did she get the travel gene? Or is she simply more into this? Am I a traveler or do I just take trips? Who knows but sure am anxious for the next one, feeling bored!
Don
First time in Baja, living two months at the edge of the Parque Natural Sierra de San Pedro Martir. Very few people come here. It is a traveler destination with some danger, but mostly perceived. I can only describe it as heavenly and magical, especially especially at night with the golden hues casting a warm glow on the mountains and desert plants. The nightly display of shooting stars never grows old.
We’ve decided to take a few months to house-sit for extended periods of time which is providing some amazing opportunities like this.
There may not be a travel gene, but being part of a family that does certainly increases the chances that desire and opportunity will meet.
Leah
Mahalo! Thank you! for sharing this! I follow a hand full of travel bloggers, that I look up to and respect… but this was SO refreshing & insightful! I got so genuinely excited to read every sentence – sounds so cheesy, but this just rarely happens, but then again I do not read all that much. :/ Nevermind that… thank you both for sharing your research mingled with personal flops and mountain tops 🙂 I was a childhood geek too, turned adventurer, but its interesting to think about “why” from this angle and be encouraged to keep going with it. I SO love travel yes for the highs of novelty and nature, but also for the people I meet and how it changes me or reveals me like was mentioned. In my experience being from the U.S, . the traveler lifestyle can be quite misunderstood and odd (in lieu of the picket fence, $250K house, new car, 9-5, 2.5 kids, a Goldendoodle and a yearly vacation :o) …so sometimes the lifestyle seems inherently wrong, but my heart says otherwise, even though my head still freaks out sometimes, “your crazy! what are you doing!” …it’s all part of “the adventure.” Salud!! thank you again 🙂
Muhemmed Haider
Totally agree with you . And its true there is a science to adventure.
Anne
Not only do I think there’s a genetic basis to wanderlust, I also suspect it’s linked to anxiety . Oddly enough, many travelers also suffer from anxiety disorder and/or some form of depression.
Jessica
I think there is a lot of truth to this. I suffer from anxiety and depression and definitely feel better when I’m on the move. I think traveling helps people stay in the moment which definitely helps in managing anxiety and depression since one leaves us living in the past (depression) and the other leaves us fretting about the future (anxiety).
Joyce
I am on my challenge right now. I decided, as a recent widow in my late 50’s, that I wanted to see what it was like to live in a different culture. I always thought I would like to try that and so, as I type this, I am teaching English to, and living with, a family in Italy for 2 1/2 months.
Jo Anne
The first step is always the hardest – after that, the ‘comfort zone issue’ doesn’t really matter:)
Andrew J Stillman
Wow, what an awesome interview! I challenged myself to a year abroad in New Zealand back in 2015. Once I got back, that travel bug ate away at me and I’m currently road tripping around all 50 states! (Well, 48, we’ll figure out Hawai’i and Alaska when we get there.)
This interview hit the spot for me, and reminded me of the need to go out and adventure. I, too, get bogged down in my comfort zone, but it’s always really fulfilling to push myself out of it. I always tell myself if I could do the Nevis Bungy (which I did), I can pretty much do anything.
Thanks for the great interview!
Ashley
I’ve always wondered about the science behind why some people travel and others don’t. This article has answered so many of my questions.
We have friends and family who don’t have any interest in travel, but since we’ve taken our first long-term trip our lives, careers and plans for the future have completely changed to accommodate our desire to travel as often as possible. I can’t even imagine not feeling this way.
Pilot Mark
Great, guys! I agree, its so important for us to leave our comfort zones in order to appreciate what we have and how other people live and think. I love the feeling that travelling gives me and never want to stop exploring and learning. I´ve been spending a lot of time in the Bahamas lately and its given me a new perspective on life.
Jeff Whyte
I agree. Everyone is different and when it comes to the privilege of being able to travel, we all have our sweet spot
Gezilecek Yerler
Totally agree with you . And its true there is a science to adventure.
Savannah
I definitely agree with this. Thinking back on trips that I’m disappointed with, it’s always because they ended on a sour note – the whole trip wasn’t bad, I’m just stuck with that final negative feeling. Thanks for the great interview!
Ted
I never go looking for adventure. Sure, setting out to somewhere may seem like it, but it’s when stuff comes in from an unexpected angle that a true adventure takes place. In every case it has not been “fun”. I just had to make the choice to get on with the situation, learn and get out of it. Then afterwards realized I had grown a little, Sometimes I can laugh about it, other times thankful it’s over and hope it never happens again.
For instance: Bungee jumping is not adventure. When the bungee breaks – then the adventure takes place.
There seems to have been a watering down of the meaning in past few years. Every definition I’ve read, there is nothing ‘good’ about adventure. It’s what you do with it that counts.
Bonnie
Great article. My favorite quote: “Ultimately, the size of your life is proportional to how uncomfortable you are willing to be.” So true!!
Kate - Travel for Difference
This is such an interesting read – I find it fascinating looking at other people’s travelling styles (or lifestyles in general) and how different they really are to one another. I would say I’m quite an adventurous traveller; I strive to find exciting things and do something new every day, but that’s not for everyone. In my eyes, there is certainly no right or wrong way to see the world – You do you!
Pintours
My two main concerns are:
1) Would I be able to pay for it
2) What do you do when the novelty of traveling runs out? (How do you adjust back into normal life)
Jaime
Hi Pintours. The way I work this for myself is that no matter what, I travel. If I don’t have money to go to a far off land, I travel in my state, and if that doesn’t work, I travel in my city. No matter what, I make it a point to see or experience something new constantly. Generally speaking, people have at least some money to do so; if they desire to travel, they just need to make it a priority.
As far as adjusting back to “normal” life, my longest trip so far has been a month in SE Asia. One month isn’t too long compared to many other travelers, but it definitely marked me. The trip only made my wanderlust get stronger, so much so that now all my aspirations for the future are at least partially built around being able to travel. So judging from my experience, you don’t quite adjust back to normal life. You really do come back with a different outlook and do everything you can to adjust life to that outlook.
Ross
Well, I definitely need to teach myself more of the “science of adventure”. A very interesting topic — my favorite line: “The true gift of an adventure is not just the stories you will tell, but the person you become in the process.”
Izy Berry
Jon is the epitome of a SMART and COOL dude. I mean, making EPIC a science?
Come on. And that suit with the tuxedo penguins at the background. Yes, please. Thank you, Nomadic Matt, for the intro
Byron
I love science, but would caution that this outlook is one version of what we might call the extrovert ideal (courtesy of Susan Cain’s book Quiet).
A deep inner life and a Hollywood-worthy external life can be compatible, but it’s not as easy as turning a switch for people with personality challenges, mental health issues, etc.
As an introvert, I intend to read Jon’s book as I think it could offer me a lot of growth opportunities. I would recommend other introverts do the same, too! We can be true to ourselves while also meeting the rest of the world halfway.
Thanks for giving us something to think about and discuss!
Heather Bailey
Are those of us who haven’t had the privilege, or the means to travel living less fulfilling lives?
Suzy Smith
So I feel I am genetically a wanderer and have had some amazing experiences that I treasure as my ‘real me.” Thing is, now I am a single mom with a first grader. How do I integrate my son? Does he deserve to have a stable home (meaning mom works a 9-5 job and buys new clothes, and other things that the kids at school has)? Can I make him take the risks that I crave?
Tracy Smith
I don’t know if wanderlust is genetic or not. I am the only one in my family who has it. I have a few friends who enjoy travel, but not to my level. What is the dividing line, the difference? I feel like there must be more science involved related to personality types (or something along those lines). I do know that when I’m not traveling, I feel restless. When I think back on travel experiences, I do try to take a holistic view, as I’ve traveled enough to know that everything will not be perfect; it’s unrealistic to expect that everything will go smoothly. And really, it probably shouldn’t when exploring a new place and culture. I agree that we do need to be uncomfortable to some extent; that pushes me to learn.