Posted: 04/28/15 | April 28th, 2015
When I was teaching English in Bangkok, a friend gave me a copy of The 4-Hour Workweek by some guy named Tim Ferriss. Apparently, it was a best-selling book. At the time, I was trying to figure out how to extend my travels, and my friend thought the book would be helpful. I read it and immediately wrote down ideas. It was filled with helpful tips on work-life balance, starting your own business, and living a time-rich life. The book had a profound impact on my thoughts about living life. I understood immediately why the book was (and still is) so successful.
Many of you probably have heard of Tim and his work. His books have been #1 best-sellers multiple times over, and he’s often considered the original lifestyle designer and life-hacker.
Since reading his book in 2007, I have continued to read Tim’s work, was featured on his website, and got to meet him on a few occasions (I tried very hard not to “fanboy out” the first time). Today, I’m beyond thrilled to share an interview I did with him where we talk travel, languages, and his TV show!
Nomadic Matt: You’re famous for all your “4-hour” books, but for those who don’t know you, can you give us a little background on yourself and how you got into this?
Tim: For sure. I grew up on Long Island, rat tail and all. I somehow ended up at Princeton studying neuroscience and then East Asian studies. I graduated in 2000 and headed to San Francisco to make billions at a start-up that promptly imploded. I started my own sports nutrition company.
However, my girlfriend left me and I had a nervous breakdown, which led me to leaving the US and traveling around the world for 18 months. That’s when I redesigned my life, the basis of which formed The 4-Hour Workweek.
It was turned down by 27 publishers, then it hit and stayed on The New York Times best-seller list for 4+ years. Years later, I’m still passionate about travel and showing people how to conquer fear.
My newest project, a TV show called The Tim Ferriss Experiment, explores how to conquer fear and increase your learning speed 10 times over. It was filmed and edited by the same Emmy award-winning team behind Anthony Bourdain (Zero Point Zero).
You were inspired to write The 4-Hour Workweek because you went on a big trip around the world, so let’s talk travel a bit. Why do you travel?
I travel to open my own mind, question my assumptions, and learn. You can’t understand or appreciate your own culture without experiencing other cultures.
Language learning, which I once considered myself “bad at,” is also the key to having a second soul. It gives you a new and better lens for the entire world. As Ludwig Wittgenstein said, “The limits of my language are the limits of my world.”
Like you, I was heavily influenced by our friend Rolf Pott’s book Vagabonding. In the world of life hacks and efficiency, do you think the aesthetic of slow travel has been forgotten?
If you’re constantly getting smartphone notifications every five minutes, it’s impossible to feel unrushed or nonreactive. So, I don’t think we’ve so much “forgotten” the art of slow travel as we’ve falsely convinced ourselves that we don’t have time. That’s nonsense. If you don’t have time, you don’t have priorities. What we lack is attention, not time. There are simple steps that help fix this, like making your Saturdays a “screen-free” day for instance.
Your new project is about you learning new things. Tell us about it.
The Tim Ferriss Experiment is kind of like Mythbusters meets Jackass. The goal is to give viewers tools to 10x their learning capacity, all while entertaining with action.
In each episode, I push myself to the breaking point, attempting to learn notoriously punishing skills — surfing, professional poker, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, parkour, languages, etc. — in just one week each.
For each skill, I partner with the world’s best and most unorthodox teachers (Laird Hamilton, Marcelo Garcia, Stewart Copeland, etc.), who train me for a final gauntlet. I don’t always win, and there are some spectacular injuries and catastrophes, but I show you how to replicate the breakthroughs.
The mantra of the show is “you don’t need to be superhuman to get superhuman results… you just need a better toolkit.” It was a brutal show to film. Lots of literal blood, sweat, and tears… all caught on camera of course!
I funded a lot of my original trip playing poker, so I was happy to see that episode. What was the most interesting thing you learned playing poker?
The most interesting thing about poker was the value of “selective aggression” and how a few tricks can help you hold your own, even against pros. The most important first step was realizing the power of a “fold or raise” game plan, where you “call” almost never, and you fold (throw your cards away) 70% or more of the time. You have to have the patience to fold for an hour straight before any action. Then, if you have “cards to bring to war,” you show no mercy with aggression and bet size.
Language is fundamental to travel and I know you’ve spent a lot of time learning languages. How many do you speak?
I’ve studied 10-plus, but these days, my best languages are Japanese, Spanish, Mandarin Chinese (which is basically the Beijing dialect), and English. If I have two weeks to prep, I can hold down the basics in German, Italian, and a few others.
It’s important to keep in mind that I quit Spanish in 9th grade because I’d concluded I was “bad at languages.” There are hacks for this stuff.
In one episode of The Tim Ferriss Experiment, I have to learn Tagalog (Filipino) in 3-4 days well enough to do a live TV interview in Tagalog. I don’t recommend that insane gamble, but the episode shows you what the human brain is capable of, including a lot of memory techniques that can 2-10x vocabulary acquisition.
How do you learn so many, so quickly? Is there a 4-hour language trick people can use? For the everyday traveler just going to Italy for two weeks, what can they do?
Absolutely. First, WHAT you study is more important than HOW you study. In other words, you have to study common, high-frequency words to get the most from the fewest hours. I like >www.vis-ed.com flash cards as they are made for this. In terms of order, though, I would do the following:
- Start using the free Duolingo app immediately, to get more comfortable with basic words, structure, and pronunciation.
- Simultaneously, learn mnemonic tools like the LinkWord method by Gruneberg, which will help you absorb more vocab. Memrise makes use of good mnemonics, and here’s their Italian course.
- Commit to 10-20 www.vis-ed.com cards per day for a week prior to the trip and each day in-country. Keep them in your pocket for downtime (e.g., waiting in lines, commuting, etc.)
- Get a Lonely Planet phrasebook and memorize at least your 10 favorite phrases, including one absurd one to make locals laugh. Something like “Are you allergic to llamas?” or whatever works great. This will make you a lot of friends.
- Consider watching American movies or TV you know well… with subtitles chosen. Do this at least four nights per week for two weeks prior to leaving. Here’s a creative way to find them: just search YouTube or Google “[name of tv show or movie] sub ita” If you’re a techie, you can also try sites like TV Subtitles.
- If you want to get aggressive and pick up a lot of conversation and idiomatic expressions, you could buy a popular comic book like One Piece in both English and your target language, in this case, Italian.
On the flip side of that, what SHOULDN’T they do? What are some mistakes you made that they should avoid?
Don’t use materials you wouldn’t consume in your native language. If you wouldn’t read the Financial Times in English, why on earth would you try it in Spanish or Japanese? Barf.
Going back to your 4HWW book, why do you think it resonated so much with people? Did you expect such a giant reaction? I mean you’re considered the father of the “location independent/lifestyle design” movement.
No one expected 4HWW to have the impact it did. I’m still astonished and humbled. The most common feedback I get is something like, “I used to work in a cubicle in a city I tolerated (at best), and now I run my own company from a laptop in awesome places like Costa Rica or Thailand.”
Literally tens of thousands of people have communicated this to me. It’s incredibly rewarding and I still have to pinch myself.
A couple of my readers had questions that I wanted to share. This one is from Jennifer: “If you could do it again, what would you do differently?”
I’d start meditating earlier. I can be quick to anger and hold resentment more than I should. Males in my family all seem to have fairly short fuses. Meditation moderates that a lot. I use transcendental meditation, but vipassana and others are great.
I suggest starting with guided meditations, whether on an app like Headspace or Calm, or audio on a site like samharris.org.
This is from another Matt: “What does the pursuit of happiness mean to you?”
It doesn’t mean much. I chased “happiness” and used that word for a long time, but I think it’s mostly a waste of time.
“Happiness” is overused in so many places that the meaning has become unclear. I agree with Nathaniel Hawthorne, who said: “Happiness is like a butterfly which, when pursued, is always beyond our grasp, but, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you.”
I tend to chase what excites me, and in doing so I usually end up very happy. It doesn’t seem to work in the reverse, at least not for me.
So since we are a travel website, let’s end with some lightning-round travel questions:
- Window or aisle? If it’s an overnight flight, definitely window. Otherwise, always aisle.
- What’s your favorite country? 1st: US (wasn’t always the case), 2nd: Japan, 3rd: Argentina.
- What’s the one travel item you always pack? A “Rad Roller” for rolling out my feet and forearms.
- Hostels or hotels? Neither. Apartments for at least 1-2 weeks, whenever possible. Airbnb has made this incredibly easy, even for shorter stays.
- You are dropped off at an airport and can go anywhere in the world. Where do you go? The Maldives! As much as I love scuba diving (which I’d also do there), I’d like to visit before the whole place is underwater.
The entire season of The Tim Ferriss Experiment is now available for binge watching (is there really any other way to watch anything these days?) on iTunes at itunes.com/timferriss. Here’s the trailer:
You can also find Tim on his blog, The 4-Hour Workweek.
Book Your Trip: Logistical Tips and Tricks
Book Your Flight
Find a cheap flight by using Skyscanner or Momondo. They are my two favorite search engines because they search websites and airlines around the globe so you always know no stone is left unturned.
Book Your Accommodation
You can book your hostel with Hostelworld. If you want to stay somewhere other than a hostel, use Booking.com as they consistently return the cheapest rates for guesthouses and cheap hotels.
Don’t Forget Travel Insurance
Travel insurance will protect you against illness, injury, theft, and cancellations. It’s comprehensive protection in case anything goes wrong. I never go on a trip without it as I’ve had to use it many times in the past. I’ve been using World Nomads for ten years. My favorite companies that offer the best service and value are:
- World Nomads (for everyone below 70)
- Insure My Trip (for those over 70)
- Medjet (for additional repatriation coverage)
Need to book your trip?
Check out my resource page for the best companies to use when you travel. I list all the ones I use when I travel. The are the best in class and you can’t go wrong using them on your trip.
Sonja Riemenschneider
Great interview, I love this kind of thing! It’s always fun to hear success stories especially when paired with really great advice. I could sure use some help with productivity in running my blog while going to school for my PhD. I’m adding that book to my wish list. Thanks for sharing!
Ashley
This is all great advice! I love the language advice as I always try to learn languages before I travel. A lot of times, even after studying for months, I still feel like “I suck at this”. BUT then I get to the country and the words just flow. I’m interested to see how he does in his Tagalog interview. 🙂 Salamat Matt & Tim!
Kendall O
I love Tim Ferriss, and I loved this interview. Great to see two life hackers getting together for this interview! Ferriss absolutely changed my outlook on work and life, as did you, Matt, in the travel category. Thanks to you both.
katie
Wow! I love Tim Ferris & also enjoyed his 4 Hour Body book as well. I had no idea it was turned down 27 times. That gives me a new perspective on how many times I need to put my stuff out there. ;o)
Nigel
Great interview. Like many others, Tim has definitely had a big impact on my life. I also started using Duolingo so it’s great to see it comes with a recommendation from Tim
Kach Medina
Great Interview! Been learning a lot from both of you! I didnt expect working online would be really time consuming and it makes me wanna quit sometimes but with the inspiration that you guys are giving, I will focus on the goals but balance my lifestyle! Meditation it is! Thanks Matt and Tim!
Tiffany
This is one of my most favorite interviews ever!!! Nomadic Matt, Tim Ferris and reference to Rolf Potts. It doesn’t get any better. Thanks for this awesome post!!!! 🙂
Allison
I read his book, but wasn’t aware of the backstory behind it. I love hearing about people who take time out to travel due to a bad break-up, or some sort of difficult time, and seeing them come out on top!
I’m definitely going to start following Tim more closely, he seems to be full of good advice and humility!
Susanne
Great interview! I read the 4 hour workweek but not the other books by Tim Ferris, I definitely want to learn more about his hacks to learn a foreign language and will check that out.
Grant
Tim was the first person to put into words what I’d been thinking for a long time. “This doesn’t have to be this way.” For someone who has a 4-hour work week though, he sure does seem to “work” a lot 🙂 (and don’t try telling me learning jitz in 5-days isn’t work!)
Also, Matt, good to meet you at the LA Book event. Hope the tour is wrapping up well. Our RTW, which both you and Tim played parts in fostering the seeds of, starts Monday!
Lisa
Matt I really love your blog!!! It truly inspires and motivates me. I’m considering a long travel trip soon if i get laid off. This blog has been inching me in that direction for quite a while. Thanks for all you do!
Kelly
This interview is brilliant. I’ve been home from a 10 month trip for a month now, trying to figure out my next step. This has been a great start in determining that next step!
Ally Fiesta
I use the duolingo app and it’s great since it include idioms and you can do a quick lesson in less than 10 mins. And it’s free!
I’ve been wanting to read tims book.
NomadicMatt
Now is the time then!
Victoria@ The British Berliner
Wow! What a great show and so inspiring. I like the fact that Tim does activities that the typical man-on-the-street would like to do and goes ahead and conquers it. It’s a pretty true statement that anything is possible for anybody who puts their mind to it.
p.s. It was lovely to finally meet you at TBEX in Lloret De Mar Matt. A very proud moment. 🙂
Lisa
This was an incredible interview! What sticks with me is 27…27 times his book was rejected and then it was a best seller. That is awesome.
Tricia
Great interview! Thanks for asking him to break down his steps towards learning a language. Learning another language is something I really want to complete but its escaped me so far. I can’t believe I haven’t read his book yet.
John Williams
Great interview, Just finished Tim’s book “The 4- hour work week” found it pack with tons of information.. Gave me a new perspective on life and work
Rylan Urban
I’ve also read Tim’s book and was influenced by it – but another really great one which I think is even better is called: “Beyond The Grind – How to Do Work That Matters, Travel the World For Free, and Escape the Daily Grind Before It’s Too Late” by Dave Rogenmoser and Chris Hull. It was even above the 4-hour work week in the business and travel categories and I thought it was better. Those two guys are amazing people and super helpful!